Seized $9.3 million: Nigerian government’s explanations flawed – South Africa

Investigators in South Africa have dismissed Nigerian government’s explanations of the purpose of the $9.3 million cash seized from two Nigerians and an Israeli as “flawed and riddled with discrepancies”.

The suspects told South African authorities that the money was meant for the procurement of arms for Nigerian intelligence agencies.

“… Although various explanations about the money were given to the investigating officer, these explanations were flawed and riddled with discrepancies,” the South African prosecution agency said in a statement sent to this newspaper.

The jet used to ferry the money is owned by Ayo Oritsejafor, who heads the Christian Association of Nigeria, CAN.

Mr. Oritsejafor, a cleric, said he is not aware of the arms deal. He said although he owns the aircraft, it was managed by another company, Eagle Air Company, which in turn, leased the jet to a third party, Green Coast Produce Limited.

The Nigerian government in an unsigned statement, Tuesday, said it has provided South African authorities with documents and receipts to prove that the transaction was “legitimate.”

Nigerian security officials also said that it was normal practice to procure arms with cash.

“The Federal Government has submitted relevant data and documents on the transaction to South Africa and insisted that the transaction was legitimate. It also clarified that the funds were not laundered or smuggled for any covert manoeuvres. No launderer will be audacious to fly into a country in a chartered jet with such a huge cash,” a statement by PRNigeria, an agency that regularly disseminates media statements for the military, police and other security agencies in Nigeria explained.

The statement tallies with what top security officials told PREMIUM TIMES in confidence that the money was legit as the government decided to buy the arms secretly; because the U.S. government had allegedly blocked its efforts to buy arms openly.

However, the government’s explanation does not seem to be gaining traction with South African investigators as the Asset Forfeiture Unit, AFU, of the National Prosecuting Authority of South Africa, NPA, has obtained a court order to freeze the money.

The NPA, in a statement sent to PREMIUM TIMES Wednesday said that the manner which the money was brought into the country breached the country’s laws that deal with the transfer of foreign exchange of such proportion.

“The money was initially detained by the South African Revenue Service (SARS) as it was not disclosed or declared at customs, and was above the prescribed legal limit for the amount of cash that may be brought into the country,” it said in a statement.

Investigators also cast serious doubt on the Nigerian government’s explanation that the money was meant for the procurement of arms and that it has provided documents and receipt to back its legitimacy, raising serious concern that suspects might have been in the process of laundering the money before it was intercepted.

The NPA said its investigation shows that Tier One Services Group, the firm Nigerian government claimed it wanted to procure the arms from, is not authorised to sell or rent military hardware.

“In court papers, the NPA submitted evidence that Tier One is not registered with the National Conventional Arms Control Committee and is thus not authorised to enter into any agreements regarding the sale and/or rental of military equipment,” the statement read.

Tier One has apparently issued an invoice to a Cyprus based company, ESD International Group Ltd, ESD, in respect of the procurement of armaments and helicopters to be delivered to Nigeria. However, South African investigators said the time when the invoice was prepared and the time the money was brought in threw up some serious issues of its true intent.

The money was ferried to South Africa less than a week from the date the invoice was prepared (September 8, 2014).

The involvement of a Cyprus based company also heightens the suspicion that this may be a case of classical money laundering. Cyprus is notorious for its secretive banking system, which attracts shady characters and corrupt politicians looking to dry-clean ill-gotten funds.

The NPA added that the transaction did not follow normal procedure in the procurement of the kind of equipment it was alleged to have been meant for.


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  • Jones

    A president of a country that signed the cash limit law is buying US dollar from the black market. Our so called world renowned ‘jungle’ economist who even aspired to lead the World Bank is supervising this illegal transaction? US should be involved to investigate how those dollar denominations and serial numbers left America to Nigeria. This is a classical case of money laundering.

    • Johnson

      Forget about that woman. She’s a thief!

      • Wähala

        Your mama nko… you wan vouch in public she never stole anything in her life? What criminal record does Dr. NOI have for you to ascertain & dismiss her as a thief? Ewedu-loving, jealous baztards like you. How many other women do you know worldwide with her pedigree? I’m certain it will take generations for your lineage to garner enough brains to match what’s in her little finger nails… empty vessels indeed!

        • kiliminati

          you are sick….

          • Wähala

            Vouch for him if you’re not sick!

    • arewethishopeless

      So Ayo is not only an arms dealer but also a money launderer ….

      And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light …. 2 Corinthians 11:14

    • Wähala

      You’re a very stup*d clown for involving Dr. NOI in your creek moron’s blunders and money laundering. When Patience Dumbo was indicted for money laundering was Dr. Iweala supervising the economy then? Clearly, the money is proceeds from illegal oil bunkering your sister Diezani is supervising and my Aunt, Dr. NOI, testified about severally. The meaning of “coordinating Minister…” is she settles discrepancies within the ministries… their overall boss remains your drunk-on-duty Dr. DoNothing. Punk! How many times has your mother been Finance Minister of Nigeria? Oko-oko!

      • Jones

        You are pathetically jobless. In America do the government patronise black market? Ewu

        • Wähala

          I earn enough in one day to buy your life!
          Black market started in the 70’s with returning Nigerian Army officers from peace-keeping missions in Lebanon giving their dollar salaries to their kin to hustle for quick gains, not any of her creation. In fact, it’s become an industry that employs jobless almagiris. Go-siddon! Ask Dumbo to ban it, the buck stops with him… slimy, ewedu-loving baztard!

          • Jones

            Your almighty excellent Dr of Economics works for creek Dr Dumbo? Shame on you. Credible economists work where there is rule of law. My mother does not aspire to feed from the misery of poor Nigerians or root for 4 more years of illiterate black market economics. When ‘God gives you, you and your family will eat and be satisfied and still have left over, baskets full’. But when the devil gives you and your paymasters you will never be satisfied. Even if you pay off your mortgage in the US from your Nigerian bribe money. You will still vent your online venom of frustration. You and your pay mistresses have little time on earth to confess and ask God for forgiveness

          • Wähala

            She’s the face of Nigeria… the Prime Minister, she’s called. Works out of patriotism, not for some riverine drunkard from Bayelsa. Without Dr. NOI, Nigeria would have gone to the wolves… I said, “vouch” publicly for your mother that she’s not a thief, shikena!

  • King Carlos

    “Ahhhhh…. ASIRI JONATHAN TI TU O”

    This could have been an headline caption of a yoruba language newspaper, simply stating that Jonathan has been exposed. how I wish we had a responsible national assembly, this would have marked the beginning of the end of Jonathan’s government. Nonsense people, that’s how they will be exposed one after the other. Including pastor ayo , who has dragged the Christianity into the murky waters of Nigerian politics. God wi judge them all, 2015 is clearly gonna be a good year say, all liars are being put to shame daily.

  • Madiba

    Who knows how many times and in which other countries they have carried out such criminality. God is really making a statement in Nigeria (Ref, @Nwokolo). So unfortunate.

  • Jones

    Contractors Association of Nigeria president Ayo Oritsejafor’s hellfire has started here on earth. These liars are playing with Almighty God who has disgraced and dethroned many before them. They even went to Israel to pretend. These fools don’t think. What if God sends down their executive jet they bought with unexplainable funds into the Ocean? What will they tell God after?

    • Kay Soyemi (Esq.)

      They would claim it was the work of the devil!

      • Tunji Olarewaju

        Uncle Kay, you don start again, ko?Please don’t go throwing me into laughing feat(while I weep for this country) this morning again o, a begi.

        • Kay Soyemi (Esq.)

          Ah, Tunji.

          Abeg no vex, na devil cause am o!

          lol

          • Junta

            Lol..

      • Mosaku 147

        Oga Kay,I am beginning to suspect you sir.hope they have not ‘gotten’ across to you with their golden coast produce.You have been very quiet these days. With all the scandals in town it’s only your ajasi I have being seeing,no direct talkback. Anyway I agree with the work of the devil theory but must add that I think Nigeria as a nation is the work of the devil too.

        • Kay Soyemi (Esq.)

          lol

          How bodi, Mosaku?

          This old boi here don tire for so so bad news from obodo country. So my yansh don siddon look!

          But seriously, there is not much to say without it looking like one is gloating about these revelations because they are sad. Oga Oritsejafor and Mr. President have been exposed for the ruthless charlatans they are; and in my opinion, their actions only point at treason all the way up to Aso Rock – and yet I had suggested this about two years ago – that the military was being deliberately weakened and the MEND armed as a fall back against GEJ losing the 2015 elections.

          Edo State N400m matter is also a cause for concern for me because APC is refusing to explain why Gov. Oshiomole had this huge sum approved by the House for his trip – SINGLE TRIP!

          But no matter what sha, it is good to see the military winning some battles against the boko haram.

        • Kay Soyemi (Esq.)

          Lest I forget.

          Don’t worry about the golden coast produce, my menu of preference starts with garri and peanuts soaked in sugar water; the colder the better!

          lol

  • Ay

    God is really working in favour of the common masses of this country with all the recent exposures. This is how they steal our money and we keep supporting them. I pray this case will go a long way to expose more people … At least we now know that Oritssejafor represents the PDP/GEJ more than he represents God!

  • OMOBA

    I don’t care whether ilegal or legal all I want is hw to procure equipment to fight out these criminals.

    • Ikechukwu_67

      No one is procuring anything.Na chop money be dat!!! It’s just unfortunate that it was an own goal. Somebody don yab along the way…..

  • Ken

    The Govt has said they owned the $9.3m, why are we trying to cry more than the bereaved? The money belongs to Govt, Period. The only issue here is that it was not declared which is wrong; let Govt rectify that and let us move on. Carrying cash is not a problem, but anything $10,000 and above must be declared. Govt goofed. We should not drag the issue beyong its relevance.

    • Jones

      Why are you jittery? Must you move on with stupidity each time an incompetent government showcases their lack of knowledge? Do you ethnic bigots think every country is like Nigeria where the president leads in breaking the law, probing black market currency exchange and fraternities with suspected financiers of terrorism in his own country?
      Spare me your gibberish, you unsettled impostor!

      • SBassey

        If you don’t want to move on make you stay there. The govt has admitted that they own the money and are dealing with the issue with SA government. If you like shout till tomorrow it will change nothing. Every govt deal in secrecy even the US and other advance nations. The govt has explained that the worlds police man is blocking them from procuring arms legitimately so they must find other means. You believe it or not it changes nothing. Don’t give yourself high blood pressure. No matter the noise APC and PDP go chop together.

    • Olu from South Africa

      I wondered how much they are paying you. I won’t blame you. Make as much as you can from fools. Enjoy it while it lasts. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them and the prosperity of fools shall ruin them.

  • Newsday

    ALL SAID AND DONE……

    “The Asset Forfeiture Unit (AFU) of the National Prosecuting Authority of South Africa (NPA)
    has obtained a court order freezing the money. The NPA said the manner the money was brought
    into South Africa breached the country’s laws that deal with the transfer of foreign exchange of
    such proportion. The NPA added that the transaction did not follow normal procedure in
    the procurement of such equipment it was allegedly meant for.”

    ………………..Premium Times
    (September 17, 2014)

    • The Revolutionary

      Nigeria shall know a revolution first before it will know democracy.
      It is impossible to accord constitutional protection to stolen wealth.

  • humm

    Soutth Africa should seize the damn money and dare the Nigerian govt to go to court for a redress. THIEVES.BTW, incarcerate those courier that brought in the money as well.

  • Truthometer

    My appeal to the South African government is not to treat this crime committed on their soil as a diplomatic case, but a criminal acts as it is. The $9.3m and the aircraft should be confiscated, while their couriers should be prosecuted to the full extent of South African laws. Our government will do everything including persuasion, cajoling, bribery, name-calling and blackmailing to circumvent the South African laws and cover their filthy asses. But I appeal again that, the government of South Africa should stand its ground, no matter what happen. Any attempt to do otherwise, can only make you a party to pilferage going on in our country. Our political class are criminals together with their collaborators, both spiritual and temporal, as you can see. This is a very bad time to be a Nigerian. I am so ashamed of our president, his wrecking crew called ministers, and his political party PDP, for bringing Nigeria so low.

  • Chris1408

    Everything about GEJ and his administration are flawed. They think South Africa is Nigeria where their stupidity and incompetence are celebrated. If this is not an impeccable offense, I don’t know what is.

    • Ha

      Not only impeachable, but treasonable as well? Illegal arms deal, what do you call it?

      • kay-kay

        the Arm is for BH and APC is responsible Lolxxxxxxx.

  • Wähala

    South Africa is no Benin Republic, there’s no Seme border to close and punish the clowns of Cotonou if they didn’t free our arms smugglers caught on their side of the border. No Presidential jet will be bringing Oritsejafor’s cartel members home. To see a Zulu one has to fly for 6hrs. and dodge Afrikaan’s metal & lead bullets, e no easy! There is nothing in this report that I have not pointed out when the news filtered in, now that the world is looking to see if SA President Zuma tolerates money laundering, and given that another fake Naija pastor is responsible for the largest loss of SA lives in one day, e go hard convincing Zuma to temper justice with mercy… Nigeria is not Cotonou to them, so ‘love thy neighbor’ is irrelevant here. Dr. Dumbo should stop talking and switch to damage-control mode… bcos our Aborigines are not coming home anytime soon. This is time for PR firm, Levick, to really earn their keep. They should have advised the Presidency not to mouth-off at the Americans by blaming Obama for the illicit money movement. Now that Dumbo is sitting on the Bunsen Burner, the US will make sure a tornado (not wind) blows make we see the nyash of those no-name Nigerians in custody of the Zulus awaiting the bailiff to call their names for the dock… Hahahaa chei, na laffu for kalabari!

    • Timi

      lmao, dis is really funny comment

    • Guguru

      Wahala,

      Very good statements.

    • kay-kay

      “bcos our Aborigines are not coming home anytime soon. ”

      Lolxxxxxx Whala wan kill me with laugh o…. lolxxxxxx

  • Mr. Abdin

    I have confidence on the South African Authority because they will pursue this case to its logical conclusion, truth can never be denied.

  • Dafe

    Kudos to the South African government for standing firm on rule of law on this matter.
    The South African government is urged to press the case until the money is forfeited.
    Criminals inside Nigerian government circles must not benefit from financial wrongdoing.
    Or must Boko Haram be allowed to become the new alibi for stealing Nigeria’s treasury dry.

    • Public Policy Group

      WHERE IS ATTORNEY-GENERAL MOHAMMED ADOKE?

      What’s significant is that there’s supposed to be an attorney-general in Nigeria named Mohammed Adoke.
      But he’s been more useless than not, as Nigeria cascades into infamy all around the world for criminality.
      Nobody looking in at Nigeria from outside will believe Nigeria has any schooled attorney-general in office.
      Mohammed Adoke is obviously lacking in knowledge of law and shuts up so as not be found out as slack.

      See the list of disgrace overcasting Nigeria as an outlaw country today. First, Nigeria is under probe in Italy.
      According to Italian prosecutors, Attorney-General Adoke likely midwifed the moneylaundering on OPL 245.
      Adoke brokered a deal with Italian ENI (Agip) Oil with ex-Oil Minister Etete; and dragged President Jonathan in.
      Now, Italian government sees moneylaundering fingerprints of Adoke and Jonathan in the $1.23 billion paid.

      In America, President Obama ordered criminal investigations of two (un-named) participants in the OPL 245 deal.
      One or both of these ‘participants’ is believed to be a Nigerian; and that means, either Adoke, Etete or Jonathan.
      On top of those two on-going criminal investigations in America and Italy is this latest criminal case in South Africa.
      Like the two others in the U.S and Italy, this South African case implicates President Goodluck Jonathan in person.

      • Mr Igbo Sanity

        Attorney General that has over $20 million dollars in UK banks stolen from Nigeria. Forget that all the Jonathan regime members are united in 100% corruption and looting to the hiegnts never seen before in Nigeria

        • Femi A.

          Mohammed Adoke looks more like a waste of space than an attorney-general.
          He verily exemplifies the tragedy of immorality and thefts ravaging Nigeria today.
          Looking back Mohammed Adoke was selected for the job by Jonathan for those demerits.
          Jonathan runs an immoral government where merits don’t count and crimes go un-punished.

          • nija pikin

            Adobe was nominated by late former CJN from benue can’t remember his name. As a return favour he did to joni

  • Adoki

    Pastor Oyakhilome, T.B Joshua and now Oritsejiafor – all involved in one career-defining controversy or the other; all within the last one month. What is really happening? Could this be the Almighty himself trying to tell us something about the institution of falsehood and exploitation that organised religion has become in Nigeria?

  • Gbolahan

    “If entering or leaving a country with undeclared $9.3 million is mere ”procedural error”,

    why was Sule Lamido’s son convicted for not declaring a mere $50,000 dollars at the

    Mallam Aminu Kano International Airport?”

    ………….All Progressives Congress (Party); APC
    [September 18, 2014]

  • hyperbole123

    SA should just seize the money from the criminals we call govt. na SA luck be dat. we have instituted and canonized criminality in this country. thanks to GEJ and the other thugs he hangs around with

  • Mr Igbo Sanity

    South Africa has nearly 400 years of law and Order. It is not a lawless state like Nigeria. Ms Winnie Mandela former wife of Nelson Mandela, has twice been sentenced to jail terms: six years in 1991 as an accessory in the kidnapping of a group of youths, including Stompie Seipei, and four years in 2003 for fraud and theft. This will not happen in Nigeria. Can you imagine obj, IBB, or jonathan’s relatives been sentenced to jail?

    The national motto of South Africa is that they are united by “LAW AND ORDER” So Jonathan has to beg Zuma to quash Pastor Ayo Oristejaor’s Money laundering and gun running charges in South Africa. Zuma may pardon Oristsejaofor ONLY, after NPA completes their investigation.

  • jacko obo

    Ayo orisejafor is a political manager of goodluck jonathan money laundering agency. This fellow has bastardise the highly respected office of CAN president.
    South Africa govt should not compromise, the plane, the money should be seized and culprits made to go to jail.

  • wode

    Imagine the embarrassment! Nigeria and South Africa? This president has not for once impressed me. Each time you try to show some understanding in the name of rationalization, you still see the dear president gaffing and falling into abyss of credibility and respectability. What a country? What a president?

  • loko

    Abacha govt was better than this, corruption now is worse that the regime of the dark gurgled general.

  • BABAZARIA

    Diaris God woooh. Sule Lamido should laugh last now. Only recently his son was alleged to be laundering $50k!!!!!???. Can any sensible person compare this with $9.3Million?????. God shall continue to answer our PRAYERS.

  • Rommel

    Looking at this photograph,one can conclusively understand the personality of this president,that this man did not realize that Nigerians are traumatized by military uniforms especially as heads of states shows that he is indeed a dullard,if he was in love with the military,why did he not join? Nigeria is in deep shit with this clown

  • Dr Pat Kolawole Awosan

    President Ebele Jonathan and his criminal gangsters must have looted the S9.3 million dollars which was seized in South Africa meant to purchase personal property in South Africa or purchase arms to support Boko Haram insurgents as PDP members are the sponsors of Boko Haram in the North-East,Nigeria.Now South African custom has came out with complete different story about the S9.3 million dollars public funds seized in South Africa.PDP is Boko Haram sponsors.

  • BlackieUmukoro

    If the matter is being taken up at the diplomatic level, then these south African officials are obviously over zealous. Nonsense

    • NGPolitico

      You are being overzealous

      • BlackieUmukoro

        Whatever
        Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

  • Ha

    Please what brought Stevie Wonder (standing behind Namadi Sambo) to participate in the Nigerian affairs? He should go back to his country and stick to the circle of his fellow musicians. He should know that our leaders are serious people and have nothing to do with drug-addicted musicians.

    • BABUYANMA

      Steve Wonder is not in the picture.

      • Ha

        Please tell me who is directly behind Namadi Sambo wearing goggles. What is his position in this government? He’s either Stevie Wonder or another raggae guy from Jamica.

        • BABUYANMA

          Not Steve Wonder. The guy looks like you.

          • Ha

            Sorry bro. Didn’t know it was Ayo boy.

          • Nigerian

            That’s CAN’s stevie wonder, the criminal pastor.

      • Audu Dakas

        The Pastor you see in that picture represent Steve Wonder

  • King Andy

    Yes Nigerians, you can pour venom and insult on ur president and your country as much as you want, but don’t forget that the real truth of the matter is yet to be known. Just like APC, you can pour abuses all you want.

    • Guguru

      LOL! Weak!

    • NGPolitico

      Thanks king for being blind to the evidence 🙂

    • Truthometer

      “Paramout Group: We don’t do business with Nigeria”

      The South African company Paramount Group Thursday morning said the
      company has no business dealings with Nigeria or involved in the $9.3m
      arms deal with two Nigerians and an Israeli to purchase arms on behalf of Nigerian security services .

      Speaking to Per Second News an
      official of the group said they don’t deal in small arms deal and will
      not conduct business in such manners.

      He further stated that South
      Africa has a level of public transparency about its arms export policy,
      which provides some opportunities for public accountability and
      scrutiny. He also said that Paramout Group conduct business with laid
      down procedures and rules.

      Per Second News (Thursday, 18 September 2014)

    • Nigerian

      You are so daft not to understand how corrupt and incompetent this president is. He deserves all insults.

  • Guguru

    Increasingly, the defenders of Jonathan are struggling to defend him in good conscience.

  • sanees

    This is a national scandal nd international embarrassments. Nigeria should just keep quiet nd send friends of south Africa to beg

    • Otile

      How can they accept our apology and keep our money too? Let them accept our apology and send us back our money.

  • Corinthian

    Fortunately, S.A. is not Nigeria anything and everything goes. It is a country where they know that the same chord binds stealing and corruption. Issues like this cannot be swept under the carpet like it’s done regularly in our clime. You don’t bring in that volume of money in cash then start talking ‘ngbati..ngbat.’. The leaders of this country with their greed bordering on avarice are a complete disgrace to the human race.

  • What a shame of a nation with leaders stealing left, right and centre.

  • OkoAbeni

    I am sure the FGN will soon inform us the money actually belongs to the opposition. When you look at this critically, you begin to wonder about the Sheriff and Ihejirika story. The Ayo Otsejafor connection sulks especially being the CAN President and a loud spokeperson of GEJ. Some dubious things more than money is behind all these. God help us in Nigeria.

  • Comfortkay

    GEJ and PDP is nothing but ITT, l know that they will cook stories for us. It is amazing the kind of evil perpetrated daily under the rule and nose of Nigeria President even when he claim to be ignorant, we all are looking forward to the name of the person who will head the committees to find out how 9.3 Million cash dollars pass through Nigeria boarder .

  • Spoken word

    A pastor is a money launderer and a gun runner. What a shame,what is this country turning to.

  • salako

    I dey laugh oooooooo!

  • Gerald Okoduwa

    I guess the President’s numerous web attack dogs are staying away from this discourse because they know that anything they say here on this matter can be used against them in an eventual international court of law. As the South African government is responding, so also will the US government soon respond to the charge of blocking legitimate procurement of arms by Nigeria to fight insurgency. Many a time our government officials think they are addressing chickens when making public statements. Boko Haram menace has been raging since the inception of this administration. When did they start placing orders for military equipment that the U.S blocked? And even if so, why didn’t they cry out? That is a case that could trigger the entire Nigerians against the U.S government and possibly force the Security Council to intervene. CBN governor and our World Bank-trained Minister of Finance have questions to answer here. When Mr Sanusi raised dust on missing oil dollars, the Minister of Finance was quick to publicly rebuff him as a lair at a National Assembly public sitting. Till today no further explanation has come from her on the alleged missing $20b and the matter is fast becoming a forgotten issue. This very dirty one should not be allowed to go the same way. Instead of the Christian Association of Nigeria to distance themselves from this obvious shady deal, they are busy attacking and blaming an opposition party as if C.A.N is now a political party. Do they think there is money laundering in Heaven?

    • Otile

      Your question is tantamount to blasphemy. There is no buying and selling in Heaven.

  • Rakota

    Looking at the picture above ,I see Steve Wonder behind Vice President Sambo

    • Audu Dakas

      You’re a funny guy! That’s the CAN president, Pastor Oritsejafor

    • checkmate

      An array of criminals.

  • Olu from South Africa

    I trust South Africa and calibre of their professionals in NPA. South Africa is not “Nigeria” where any things goes. I expect to see the cohorts of “Mr or Dr? President GEJ” in court very soon. Prison is just a stone thrown away from court.

  • True talker

    Does this fake pastor need my space shuttle to ferry his loot to heaven?
    Jets are for rascals.

    Our dear pastor needs a space shuttle.

    Damn bunch of crooks.

    Abi I dey lie?

    Nijah sef, some of us no get shame.

  • socialist

    Hmmm, this guys have rubbished the whole nation, why should a whole government get involved in such a thing just like some bunch of rascals, or God, this is rubbish.